Should I get Scarpa Veloce L or Ocún Advancer LU?

[nicoty@lemmy.ml]

I’m a beginner climber and I got Evolv Shamans in my street size a few weeks ago since I read good reviews about them and I got them pretty cheap as they were in the discounted section of my local climbing shop, but only in that size. They’ve been great at allowing me to stand on small edges and get better height on my toes due to the thick rand, but they hurt like hell to wear, making the benefits I gain from using them somewhat moot, as I’m not able to climb and improve as much as I’d like to.

I’ve been wearing them around the house in addition to the gym in the hopes of breaking them in quicker (I’ve had to wear plastic bags on my feet to prevent blisters on my heels and toes from excessive friction) and I noticed they don’t really seem to have broken in that much and still hurt my toes a lot (especially the tops of my big toes), so I’d like some recommendations for the next pair that I get.

I have Morton’s toe/Greek feet and my feet are probably wider and less-arched than average. I’d like to get a more comfortable pair for long gym sessions, so I think I’d prefer lace-up shoes in the future. I’ve narrowed my choices down to the Scarpa Veloce L and the Ocún Advancer LU, both of which are lace-up, apparently suited for Greek feet, and are vegan. I’d appreciate some comparisons if people have experience with them, or if you have recommendations for other shoes that might suit my criteria better, please share them too!

[frankpodmore@slrpnk.net]

I’ve not tried the Ocúns, so I can’t compare, but I can definitely recommend the Veloces for wide feet. Definitely the most comfortable climbing shoes I’ve worn!

[kosmoz@lemm.ee]

Can you not try them on? You did mention a local climbing shop after all… I would not recommend buying shoes without having tried them on, much less to a beginner.

[nicoty@lemmy.ml]

I don’t recall the shop having the Advancer or the lace up version of the Veloce, but I do remember trying out velcro Veloces which did feel more comfortable. At the end I went with the pair of Shamans because they were cheap, didn’t feel too uncomfortable at the time and I thought they would break in more than they have so far. Definitely realise my mistake with that decision now though hah.

[saltesc@lemmy.world]

Shamans are famously a very comfortable aggressive shoe. But also talked longer than most to break in.

Evolvs tend to be similar to street size. When they first go on they should be very difficult to get on and really restrict your foot. After a few mins, the tightness and pain should be really uncomfortable and you will want to take them off. However, after sitting with them on in a bucket of warm water and walking around the house a bit, or after a few sessions at the boulder gym leaving them on for longer periods, they will fit like a glove. When breaking in, a shoe should always expand to your foot, until they’re like a second skin. You should never get friction or slip issues ever.

Blisters: This is unusual. Evolvs tend to be nicer for wider feet. As I said, your shoe should be so snug there is no friction at all so you shouldn’t ever get blisters. It sounds like your shoe size is actually too big, or your foot doesn’t fill-out the inside of Evolvs well, like wide toes but narrow heel. Shamans are prone to heel-slip when they get to the end of their life, but you’re looking at at least one re-sole before that happens.

You should be adjusting the straps to prevent this. Mine were very latched down on top, fairly loose on middle, moderate on toe, and this is what I have with most straps and lacing. It will probably be different for you. Each strap does different jobs and work in combination.

Sore toe: When you say “top of big toes” do you mean toenail area or knuckle?

If it’s toenail, this is pretty normal and you’ll need to clip them down. In aggressive shoes, you’re curling up the toes in the toe box in such a shape that it promotes using the tips of your toes which leads to the toenail taking a fair bit of pressure. It’s not the shoe, it’s just what happens on toe-tips. Be thankful you don’t do ballet.

If it’s the knuckle, your toes aren’t filling out the toe box well. In aggressive shoes, the knuckle presses hard against the toe box and needs every other part of the toes to be snuggly pressing the walls too to even out the pressure and not cause a hotspot. Both too much room and too little room cause this. Too much and the knuckle does all the work. Too little and the knuckle has no where to go and you get the infamous “La Sportiva bump” start growing. This can be fixed by taping hotspot areas, forcing the box to stretch out more over time until you no longer need the tape.

Scarpa: If you have wide feet, you probably won’t fit a Scarpa. I have wide feet and cannot. I use mostly La Sportiva, Red Chili, and Evolv.

Vegan: Everyone has their views. Personally, I’m more a nature nut and synthetic shoes are obviously terrible for the environment. Most leather shoes, like La Sportiva, use leather from things like animals that have already been culled for environmental reasons. So as an environmentalist, I tend to avoid vegan shoes. This may be worth keeping in mind if you were under the impression that they’re all commercially farmed leather.

Edit: Also keep in mind synthetic shoes take much longer to break in. You can speed this up with more heat, such as the wearing them in a tub of hot water trick. Fill up a tub, put on the shoes, put on an episode or two of Rick & Morty, and try not to think about the pain.

Recommendations: Well for starters, you need to try shoes on. Your foot decides the shoe, not you. Do it the other way around and you’ll never habe happy climbing feet.

I’m 11 US and currently mostly use…

La Sportiva Skwama 42/9 (Aggressive bouldering/cave)
La Sportiva Testarossa 42.5/9.5 (Aggressive lead/cave
La Sportiva Katana 42/9 (Casual lead and multis)
Red Chili Voltage 44/10.5 (90% of bouldering)

I have old Evolvs and Red Chilis for easy gym days or training. Unfortunately I can’t remember what my Shamans were.

After my second pair of shoes, I never made the mistake of not trying things on first. I also stick to my main three brands as they seem to be best for my feet. Your feet decide your brand.

Edit: I’ve also been advised Tanaya should be really good for me, but haven’t tried any as they’re a bit hard to source here to try on.

[nic@lemmy.sdf.org]

(Commenting from my other account)

Wow thanks for the detailed advice. The toe issue I’m having is both with the toenails, which feel like they’re being pressed in a lot, and also with the knuckles above them, which feel like they’re being bent too much, as the joints feel sore after wearing the shoes.

I do clip my nails short every time I climb, but yeah, the top of the big toenails do hurt still, especially on slabs/footwork-heavy climbs, where I’m tip-toeing a lot.

I’ll have to try that taping trick and see if that helps with the big toe knuckle. There’s definitely too little room as I’ve started getting calluses above my big toes, from where the skin above the joint is just pressed too tightly against the inside of the shoe. I might try that warm water in a bucket tip if things don’t improve, but I’m hesitant to as I can’t imagine that would be too good for the longevity of the shoes.

I think I’ll definitely have to try on the shoes longer next time I buy a pair and give more weight on what really feels best rather than other criteria like price and pre-conceptions when picking them out.

It’s interesting you mentioned ballet. I was thinking the other day how good ballet dancers would perform on slabs if they tried climbing on them as they seem to have really great control of their bodies’ balance and footwork. It’d be interesting to see them try it out. I imagine there’s a lot of cross-over with the muscles, joints and movements being trained.

[saltesc@lemmy.world]

Sounds like you need another set of shoes. Not as a replacement, but as your all-rounder. And it sounds like the Shamans are your high grade shoe you whip out when you want to work something hard. You said you were quite new to climbing, so aggressive shoes may be physically too much to have on all the time at the moment. But they will rapidly teach you new techniques and improve your climbing in the beginning because they allow a lot more.

I’d definitely recommend the Red Chili Voltages if you can try them on first to confirm. I had a friend rave about them, so I tried them on, and holy shit… A fantastic comfortable all-rounder for bouldering in and outdoors. Quite a few of my crew have converted and now preach the same. I thought Solutions were my fav bouldering shoe until I tried the Skwamas and now the Skwamas only come out for really hard grade.

If you’re really enjoying slab, you will definitely hurt your toes much more than normal climbing. No way around that. You need those toes scrunched up in the toe box so you can do precise placements on tiny spots—theres no comfy option. My partner says, “Climbing is dancing with gravity and slab is the ballet.” It’s her preferred style and she switches between Shamans for boulder and Katanas for lead or easy boulder.

If you can only afford one more pair and will stick to only bouldering, I’d avoid laces and get a strap shoe that suits your foot instead. Laces are very annoying bouldering. Really, you should aim for laces if you’ll also be using them on single pitches where a 5min climb can turn into 20 after tying in, leading, anchoring, cleaning, and rappelling, thankful you’re not wearing your top-end binding boulder shoes.

For the taping trick—marbles is another good one shoved in with packaging in the shoe—just Google “climbing shoe hotspots” and you’ll get good info